Feature #3045

Länderbahn rolling stock

Added by Elukka about 8 years ago. Updated over 1 year ago.

Status:NewStart date:2011-09-08
Priority:NormalDue date:
Assignee:oberhuemer% Done:

60%

Category:Graphics
Target version:0.1.0

Description

I started drawing some wagons. I'm using the same length scale as oberhuemer in his steam engines. I'm new to this, so constructive criticism is more than welcome.

umbauwagen.png - A version with the right color palette. Durr. (7.45 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-08 12:12

umbauwagen.png (6.74 KB) oberhuemer, 2011-09-08 14:54

pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_lu7.png (7.3 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-12 23:29

pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_lu7.png (6.53 KB) oberhuemer, 2011-09-13 00:27

pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_7lu_v2.png (6.68 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-15 03:13

pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_7lu_v2_fixed.png (6.7 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-15 07:11

pr_4_abteilwagen_3kl_10lu.png (7.56 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-18 06:46

pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu.png (7.97 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-18 11:10

pr_4_abteilwagen_2kl_10lu.png (7.59 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-18 11:10

pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu-a.png (3.58 KB) Eddi, 2011-09-18 11:51

pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_9lu_fixed.png (7.36 KB) oberhuemer, 2011-09-18 19:13

pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu.png - fixes (7.96 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-28 22:35

pr_4_abteilwagen_2kl_10lu.png (7.57 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-28 22:35

pr_4_abteilwagen_3kl_10lu.png (7.53 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-28 22:35

dbsetcets_mockup.png (38.5 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-28 22:39

cets_mockups.png (26.4 KB) Elukka, 2011-09-29 03:39

cets_mockups.png - How it ought to look (26.4 KB) oberhuemer, 2011-09-29 19:14

Hawthorn___Co.__6._Okt_1922.png (145 KB) Eddi, 2011-10-02 15:14

pr_3_abteilwagen_3kl_7lu.png (6.88 KB) Elukka, 2011-10-09 15:14

pr_3_abteilwagen_2kl_7lu.png (6.86 KB) Elukka, 2011-10-09 15:29

pr_guterwagen_opendoor_5lu.png (6.24 KB) Elukka, 2011-10-09 16:21

pr_livestock_car_5lu.png (6.6 KB) Elukka, 2011-10-10 05:38

pr_livestock_car_opendoor_5lu.png (6.61 KB) Elukka, 2011-10-10 05:38

langholzwagen_4_bav.png (5.6 KB) Elukka, 2012-01-05 02:37

KlaDeWa.png (6.27 KB) oberhuemer, 2012-06-21 04:04

R_kp.png (6.69 KB) oberhuemer, 2012-06-22 04:13

_R__KPStE.png (6.45 KB) oberhuemer, 2012-06-22 04:13

History

#1 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

#2 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

Not bad for a start. I've attached a version with three modified views and the really correct palette. Some things: I thought the roof was too bright, and not contrasting enough. In the diagonal views (and on the roof in vertical), the left side needs to be dark and the right side light, and they must be exactly half as long as the horizontal ones. The windows also seemed a bit dark to me. Maybe something else too, but I don't have time for more now.
It also might be easier - and especially faster - to mostly use the "scale" and "shear" functions of your graphics program to create the intermediate diagonals (views 2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12 in the top and bottom rows) than drawing every single view whole.

If you don't mind, could you start off with some Prussian passenger and freight cars? That's the era that should be finished in 0.1, the rest can come later.

#3 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep those in mind. I can definitely see how your versions are cleaner. How was the color palette off? I converted it to indexed colors using the TTD DOS palette in Photoshop and it looked fine in TTDViewer.

I'd be happy to draw some Prussian wagons but I have barely any references handy. Do link if you know of any.

#5 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

Historically, Prussian wagons were standardized in a system of drawings called "Normalien"

here are a few examples with lengths, and lots of explanations: http://www.museumseisenbahn.de/dme/dme96_4_dgeg_dahlhausen.pdf

#6 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

you're not on IRC at the moment so i reply here:

Elukka wrote:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/abteilwagen.png

if that's the compartment wagon from the above PDF, that should be a 4th class wagon, so it should have grey colour. 3rd (brown) and 2nd (green) class wagons have different door/window setup. (see oberhümer's models).

my current thoughts for the core set: (not very refined yet)
before ~1900:
  • 3 axle compartment wagons for express and passenger trains (B3, C3, maybe BC3 randomly, D3 was actually quite rare)
  • 2 axle open-corridor wagons for local trains (Bi, Ci, Di, BCi, CDi)
after ~1900:
  • 4 axle closed-corridor wagons for express trains (B4ü, C4ü, AB4ü, BC4ü, ABC4ü)
  • 4 axle compartment wagons for commuter trains ("Hunderttürenwagen", B4, C4)
  • reuse older 3-axle compartment wagons for "accelerated" passenger trains

#7 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

Oh, and before i forget:

the first and the last pixel-column (or row in | views) of the templates are made so they overlap in the game, so they should both be same shade of black (for closed-corridor carriages) or transparent (for compartment carriages)

#8 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

Here is a prussian 2-axle CDi (combined 3rd and 4th class): http://www.lbforum.com/images/Messe 2008/CDipranz.jpg

(Hmz... looks like there is no way to handle links with spaces)

#9 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Here's my attempt at a Prussian 4th class compartment coach. Eddi told me that 3-axle 4th class coaches appeared comparatively late, and that during this period most of them would have had light grey roofs but I took the liberty of using the older brown type as I think the car looks rather boring and indistinct if it's entirely monochrome.

#10 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

It seems a bit too textured to me, less is often more with TTD sprites. Also slightly bright, I've redone the top horizontal.

#11 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

I'll rework it, then try to get the rest of the compartment coaches done. What's up with the buffers on one side and lengthening the wagon on the other? I thought both ends will overlap with the next wagon by 1px, and that anything in that area will glitch unless it's the same color on both cars.

#12 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

The actual fully usable length would be 28 pixels in your case. However, the CETS templates provide for an extra pixel of space that can be used for buffers; that way, they can be on both sides without making the car body too short.

#13 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Here's the revised version.

#14 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Goddamn. Here's the revised, fixed version... I did some small mistakes with the lighting, this is what you get when you work in a hurry. :P

#15 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

i've said this in IRC before, but for completeness i put this here:
http://www.rbd-breslau.de/14-sitzwagen/sitzwagen_s_pr.html for reference about 4 axle corridor wagons

#16 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

  • Subject changed from Wagons - sprites to Länderbahn rolling stock
  • Category set to Graphics

#17 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Got a 4-axle 3rd class wagon done. Feel free to remove some of those old sprite versions that are clogging up the list.

#18 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Here's the 2nd and 2nd/3rd class variants. I suppose some of these would also have first class compartments but the yellow highlighting they should have doesn't really look good at OTTD's resolution.

#19 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

How about something along these lines?

#20 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File pr_4_abteilwagen_3kl_10lu.png added
  • File pr_4_abteilwagen_2kl_10lu.png added
  • File pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu.png added

Here's modified versions of all three. I made the toilets narrower and their placement more accurate, but I didn't change the other windows since I think yours look triangular.

#21 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

10 lu is really too long (18.5 m = ~ 36 px = 9 lu). Besides that, the roof was oversized in the diagonal views and it seemed a little overtextured again. And the palette is still screwed.

#22 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

  • File pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu_fixed.png added

Partly fixed.

#23 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu_fixed.png)

#25 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

Positives: You're getting the colors to match nicely without too much contrast, and almost all sizes are correct. With that, you're about 90% there. I'd add you as "contributor" if I could. (hint to Eddi...)

#26 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

I used the length of Brawa's models: (http://www.brawa.de/en/products/h0/wagons/passenger-coaches/25262-compartment-coach-abc4-kpev.html)
225 mm x 87 (H0 scale) = 19.575 m, divided by 24 x 12 = ~9.8 lu

Not sure what's with the palette, though... I used Photoshop to convert it to indexed color using the DOS palette that I think Planetmaker linked on IRC.

#27 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Ah, the palette file I was using was missing some colors.

#28 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

Well, Wikipedia, referencing the original construction data, gives a length of 18.55 m for a DI 22 ABCC car. With the model, someone may have measured the length over the couplers, not the buffers - the difference between our lengths measures out to around 1 cm in HO, which is close enough.

#29 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

I'd chalk it up to conflicting sources or maybe a difference in the originals as they were built over a long period of time by two railway companies. At any rate, it's just one meter of difference. Here's the current versions with cleaned up texturing and some other fixes. If the length thing is really important, I'll redraw them some point but I really need to draw something else for a change.

#30 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Additionally, here's a quick mockup of how our stuff might look in game one day, with some DBset stock for comparison. Ours are be a pixel lower, giving more realistic porportions, but also darker... Maybe too dark? They seem to rather blend into the terrain.

#31 Updated by michi_cc about 8 years ago

If you can, I'd love to see that on original terrain as well (as especially the tracks are quite different there).

#32 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Sure. Here's OpenGFX + and Swedish Rails above, original graphics below.

#33 Updated by michi_cc about 8 years ago

Elukka wrote:

Maybe too dark? They seem to rather blend into the terrain.

Looks like the blending into terrain is especially noticeable with the OpenGFX fences, which incidentally have almost the same colour as the roof. Some more intensity (and not necessarily brightness) might help here, but I don't think the palette has enough colours for that.

#34 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

I don't really see the problem, though the engine looks more Bavarian than Prussian in color... I'll be fixing that. As an aside, the tender is wrong and pasted over, rather than under, the engine.

#35 Updated by oberhuemer about 8 years ago

#36 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

i'm fairly convinced that you should redo the 4-axle compartment wagons in 9lu.

According to http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preußische_Staatseisenbahnen#Personenwagen there ever was only one series of wagons that was longer than 19m, with the vast majority being 18,5m

#37 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

i temporarily included the graphics, see picture.

i also tried to use the 3 axle wagon, but it said unknown palette.

#38 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

As an alternative we could up the scale a notch, so 13lu=24m, then the length of these wagons would fit again :)

#39 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

Well... It'd be better to redraw the coaches than all the steamers, unless we just want to up the length of longer coaches? (which I wouldn't mind) Honestly though, nobody will never ever notice a 1 pixel difference. :)

#40 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

i just checked, if we switched to 12.5lu = 24m, we can get away without changing the already drawn engines

#41 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File pr_guterwagen_5lu.png added

It would, coincidentally, make this one slightly more accurate in length as it falls right between two templates. As for the 3 axle compartment coach, yeah it's got the wrong palette, but I'm going to be reworking the sprite soon so I'll upload a fixed version then.

#42 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File pr_3_abteilwagen_3kl_7lu.png added

#43 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu.png)

#44 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_4_abteilwagen_2kl_10lu.png)

#45 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_4_abteilwagen_3kl_10lu.png)

#46 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_3_abteilwagen_3kl_7lu.png)

#47 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

#48 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_3_abteilwagen_2kl_7lu.png)

#52 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File fabulous_test_sprite.png added

#53 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (fabulous_test_sprite.png)

#54 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File fabulous_test_sprite.png added

#55 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File test_empty.png added

#56 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File pr_open_wagon_A10_5lu.png added

#57 Updated by Elukka about 8 years ago

  • File deleted (test_empty.png)

#58 Updated by Eddi about 8 years ago

i heard you wondered about the angles of the template views, to possibly get rendered vehicles. i don't know how 3D programs handle this stuff, but i have tried to document the maths behind the vehicle views here:
https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/23336e8e489d/entry/docs/angles.txt

there'll also be trickery needed to handle the length of the vehicle, because TTD has a very screwed perspective.

#59 Updated by michi_cc about 8 years ago

And if you link to the tip revision, you'll always get the newest version :)

http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/tip/entry/docs/angles.txt

#60 Updated by Elukka almost 8 years ago

  • File d-zug_10_bav.png added

Getting something done for a change. I'll do variants if anyone can find out what other colors if any these coaches were painted in.

#61 Updated by Elukka almost 8 years ago

  • File d-zug_10_drg.png added

#62 Updated by Elukka almost 8 years ago

#63 Updated by oberhuemer almost 8 years ago

  • % Done changed from 0 to 30

#64 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File G_KPStE.png added
  • File _R__KPStE.png added
  • File H_KPStE.png added
  • File KlaDeWa.png added
  • File localtoanywhere.png added
  • File O_KPStE.png added

Started most missing first-generation wagons in 32 bpp. Expect more (besides finishing these, of course).

#65 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File local_8.png added

A palette conversion, all green has turned to grey...

#66 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File R_kp.png added
  • File O_KPStE.png added
  • File Pwi_91.png added
  • File localtoanywhere.png added
  • File _R__KPStE.png added

Update, "only" need to finish all views.

#67 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File deleted (O_KPStE.png)

#68 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File deleted (localtoanywhere.png)

#69 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • File deleted (_R__KPStE.png)

#70 Updated by Eddi over 7 years ago

i think the Pwi should have a lower roof at the end, the raised "Kanzel" doesn't cover the end of the roof.

#71 Updated by Eddi over 7 years ago

and really, do not make the | view so narrow.

#72 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

I drew this one: http://www.tt-oldtimer.de/images/Personenwagen/Pwi%20Pr%2091%20Lorenz.htm . It's from 1891, but I couldn't find pictures or drawings of anything earlier. Same probably goes for the box car and the local passenger. As for the second, I'll think about it, but asymmetry can be a problem with 7 pixels and 8 are a bit many again.

#73 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

Just noticed that it seems to have five wheels in the picture. I suppose I'll ignore that...

#74 Updated by Eddi over 7 years ago

hm... i think it looks weird, but if it has an actual example, then i guess it can be accepted. and that's not a 5th wheel underneath the wagon, it's the gas tank for the lights.

not sure why 7 pixels would cause symmetry problems... there is no mathematical reason for this. (odd numbers make things easier in a lot of cases)

#75 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

I'll try with seven pixels.

#76 Updated by Eddi over 7 years ago

note that the vehicle length is also an odd number

#77 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • % Done changed from 30 to 60

Some need to be redone, some recolored, loading stages & few variations missing too.

#78 Updated by oberhuemer over 7 years ago

  • Assignee set to oberhuemer

#79 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (umbauwagen.png)

#80 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (d-zug_10_bav.png)

#81 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (d-zug_10_drg.png)

#82 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (G_KPStE.png)

#83 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (H_KPStE.png)

#84 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (local_8.png)

#85 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (localtoanywhere.png)

#86 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_open_wagon_A10_5lu.png)

#87 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (Pwi_91.png)

#88 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (O_KPStE.png)

#89 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (fabulous_test_sprite.png)

#90 Updated by oberhuemer about 7 years ago

  • File deleted (pr_guterwagen_5lu.png)

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